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Some1New's Arguments

I ship Sokeefe. I think Sophie and Keefe will end up together. Keefe needs Sophie. Does Fitz need Sophie? No. He has his family and friends. Who does Keefe have? No one. I remember reading this in Neverseen page 505 after Fitz said he's been in Keefe's situation:

"Have you? Because I seem to remember you having a bummer few weeks and then everything went back to perfect Vacker-land. So where's my perfect fix? Why does it just keep spiraling and spiraling and spiraling?" I think Sophie will be Keefe's happy ending. He needs something in his life to go right. To go his way.

Only Sophie has kept Keefe from doing really stupid things. And most of the stupid things he's done are for Sophie.

Sure, maybe for the first 2 books Sophie didn't really like Keefe. But those feelings start to change in Everblaze. And in Neverseen, Sophie and Keefe grow even closer. He waits for her. He joined the Neverseen for her. He listens only to her. We already know Keefe likes her. But what about Sophie?

Sophie is starting to like Keefe. Like when he read her emotions in Lodestar while being enhanced by her. He felt the emotions that were from her heart. In her head, she thinks he has a crush on Fitz which used to be based only on his looks. In her heart though, she likes Keefe. That's why he wouldn't tell her what the emotions he felt in her heart were. Sophie does get jealous of other girls being with Keefe. In Nightfall, there are plenty of moments like that. Sophie doesn't know why she gets jealous because she doesn't know her heart emotions. Sophie cares for Keefe and worries about him. Sophie and Keefe only grow closer and closer each book. I think Sophie now likes Keefe and Fitz equally after Nightfall. I hope she chooses correctly. Heck, she doesn't even have to choose. I mean, this is my not-so-humble opinion. Not SWM's. (I think I repeated myself multiple times lol)

Not reread or edited, and I still got more to say

BTW, I took a long time writing this so I had to write it on something else.

~ Some1New


ChasteliaC's Arguments

I honestly love this ship. It's one of the purest ships (That I believe will be canon, but I still believe in you Fitz!) in this whole series by far. I also love what they're relationship is being built on. It's being on built trust, friendship, happiness, shared anger, remorse, sadness and a lot more mushy feelings that I don't feel like listing. (Not finished here by the way)

- ChasteliaC



Vee's Arguments

Why do we ship Keefe and Sophie? Because of their chemistry. They have a spark thats not there because Keefe was asked to be friends with her. In book 1, he could've walked away from her being lost. But no,he took her to Elwin. He stayed with her. In book 2, she trusted him to go to the Black Swan. Reminder: This was still when they didnt know if they were good or bad. In book 3, he was there for her. All through book 3, who knew about the notes? Sandor and... you got it. Keefe. She trusts him. Not because of his ability, but because of who he is. In book 4, their relationship was a bit messy. But every great relationship needs to be messy. A ship that both parties can break up with each other and forget is not a ship I can get behind. I get behind a ship thats messy and amazing and they cant break up since they have been through everything together and would sacrifice the world for each other. Thats a ship I can get behind. Thats a ship I can ship with all my heart. Thats a ship that can win.

~Vee


You have to make it Sokeefe. Throughout the entire series, Sophie has been lovin that guys hair. Anyone who remembers Exile should remember the Team Foster-Keefe with the Goblin mascot. And Keefe has some serious crushes on Sophie. At the end of Lodestar, it becomes clearer then ever when he interrupts the moment Fitz and Sophie are about to kiss. Sokeefe is destiny. We look at Sokeefe, and it's truly something. Sophitz? Might as well be Sodex then Sophitz (Even though it can't be Sodex). It's clear Fitz likes Lihn. Fihn, or Litz, or whatever you want to call it. It will be Fitz and Linh, Sophie and Keefe, and Dex and Biana. The destiny has already been set out by Shannon Messenger.

~Sokeefe


ThoseWhoWanderAreNotLost's Arguments

I'm in love with this ship. I'm in love with lots of ships in general. I just think that Sokeefe would match the ideals this book was created with.

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ADragonDreaming881 's Arguments

I'm actually very happy about the whole matchmaking thing at the end of flashback. My reasoning is that it makes her much more likely to end up with Keefe. Hear me out.

Fitz wanted Sophie to register for the match because he was scared of them being scorned. They didn't tell anyone things had changed, and weren't planning on it until she had registered. Can't you see Fitz awkwardly saying they should wait to date until the matchmaking thing gets resolved, pretending it will all be fixed soon, and hurting Sophie's feelings badly, possibly even stopping their romantic relationship in its' tracks? Keefe wouldn't care one bit about being a 'bad match'. He'd probably even like it - another way to shock and horrify his father, wheras Fitz would be terrified of making his family's repuation even worse. And if Fitz is mean about it, Keefe will definitely be there for her, possibly even tell Fitz off if he pushes her away for it.

Either way, Keefe has no reason to react negatively, while Fitz is much more likely to react negatively than even neutrally, and his reaction would likely hurt her feelings. Frankly, I can't wait for his reaction, and I hope it does sever their connection at least slightly.

By: ADragonDreaming881


BlackSwanSRM's Arguments

Part I: Keefoster Hope Argument

Keeper Rant

12:58 am

November 6th

I don’t know exactly what happened yet- but. I respect Shannon all the more for it. Think about it from a writing standpoint. There are two books left. If she was to crush a ship and choose for certain now, she would loose the entire fan base that is centered around ships (either Fitzphie or Keefoster). It would also resolve part of the plot that doesn’t need to be resolved now. AND the last two books wouldn’t feel the same.


Now secondly- she can’t just PICK a ship. If she was to just pick, half the fandom wouldn’t understand. No, she has to show them why a ship won’t work and why another is better. Else they’ll feel betrayed (like we do rn). She needs everyone on one team- and if she shows how one relationship fails, then that will happen.

(Now, if Shannon CRUSHES a ship and writes the ending unnaturally, that’s different)

It’s like what her editor, a self proclaimed sokeefe fan, said about the Fitzphie hug scene on Twitter- “sometimes being an editor mean sacrificing for the reader’s needs (emphasis on *needs*), like edit notes for @SW_Messenger re: Fitzphie hug scene #teamkeefe”. The readers WANT more of their ship; they NEED a good resolution. I think Shannon is smarter than we give her credit for and understands that.

November 8th, 7:30-

See my point? If she was to just pick Keefoster, Fitzphie fans would never understand. Like Keefoster fans don’t right now. She can’t just pick one over the other and let the other guy be like “never mind I don’t like her anymore”. She has to let the ship sail and show us why it won’t work. Basically, she’s let fitz develop a crush on Sophie, and Sophie on fitz. She can’t just poof those crushes away without seeming unnatural. She has to show us, AND show the characters themselves in the books!! Sophie’s crush isn’t just going to go away and her suddenly wake up and see reason. Something has to happen. And if she dates Fitz, then something happens and they both see why it doesn’t work, and then she isn’t blinded by him and sees that Keefe has been there all along, now THAT will be a satisfying ending. And if Keefe remains her patient friend even while she’s with Fitz, that shows a lot about Keefe’s character and will pull Fitzphie to at least LIKE him.


Hypothetically, which one is better for suspense?


  1. Keefoster happens in book seven and they stay a happy couple through the rest of the books.
  2. Fitzphie happens and they stay a happy couple through the rest of the books
  3. Nothing happens to end any ships, but the triangle continues for two books and suddenly in the last book a ship happens out of the blue and one ship just randomly fades
  4. Fitzphie happens, Keefe is heartbroken but remains her constant friend, Fitzphie continues, Keefe suffers, Fitzphie ends, Sophie realizes he was there all along and feels awful and then they live happily ever after, and Keefe knows she’ll only choose him from then on bc Fitzphie had its sail and sunk


Think about it. Two more books. The potential is endless. Also, this is key-

You can’t continue with a couple in a series along with an unresolved love triangle.

THEY CANT COEXIST PEACEFULLY.

If there’s a love triangle, and a couple gets together two books before the end, and the other guy still likes her, that couple is not going to stay together!!! Are Fitzphies thinking?!! If they know anything about writing they should be worried!! Now if Keefoster has happened this book, I would be blissfully happy for a few months and then I’d pick up on the hints. And be scared. Really scared. Unless she suddenly erases all feelings of Sophie from Keefe’s mind, which would be unnatural and awful writing especially when you consider how she built up to it with the “until she was ready for more”, then it’s kind of inevitable that Fitzphie will break up. (Not to mention “I will wear her down someday. I’m sneaky like that.”)

Trust me. Love triangles don’t just resolve themselves. Shannon needed to do this to us. And she has a plan.

Very last piece of evidence- the fact that Liesa Abrams, her editor, said that she was sacrificing for the NEEDS of the readers. Just letting Fitzphie happen would be the WANTS of the readers. But I think needs implies and supports my theory. If you fell someone you’re “giving them what they need, not what they want” that usually implies that they’re not going to like it but it’ll help them in the long run. I think she understands what Shannon is doing. Her use of “need” has puzzled me even before flashback, as she seems to be implying we need Fitzphie. But no- I think her use of “need” is crucial.


In defense of the head vs heart theory:


Shannon does not have to put anything in the books.

Shannon did not have to tell us what Lord Cassius's theory was. 

Shannon did not have to make enhancing empaths reveal heart emotions.

Shannon did not even have to make heart emotions. 

Shannon did not have to let Keefe feel her heart emotions.

Shannon did not have to have Sophie glance at him at that moment.

Shannon did not have to have Keefe bring it up again.

Shannon did not have to have Sophie tell Dex "So your head may be telling you one thing, but deep down, the rest of you wants something else"

Shannon did not have to add "Until she was ready for more" or "I'll wear her down someday" or "Team Foster-Keefe is going to win".

Shannon did not have to let Flashback end like that. (Shannon did not have to strategically place all of those matchmaking discussions throughout flashback.)


Yet..... she did.


I'll let that speak for itself.


Quote from argument-  "Well, actually having "no" argument as you said is much better than having a faulty one." I disagree very much. Having no argument is very bad news, because we actually have an argument. Based on things in the book that are not coincedence. If Fitzphie is endgame, there should be signs. Foreshadowing. And what should scare you guys is we have them, and you don't. (At least, if they're there someone should've found them by now. It should be easy.) 

Trust me on this-  If Fitzphie is endgame, the clues should be there. Unless... they're not.  

Part II: Flashback Parents/Matchmaking Theory


SamSerene68's Arguments

Sophie's feelings for Fitz initially started based on his looks, and I think that's what persuaded her to spend more time with him. Also the fact that he is too a Telepath and because of Alden. With Keefe though, she notices he's good looking, but they really only start getting close in Exile. She starts spending time with him because they have a mutual problem and want to fix it together...not because she thinks he's 'cute.' And she spends time with him after Exile because she starts to like the real Keefe, not just because of his ability or his looks. Also, Fitz shuts everyone except for immediate family out when something happens, even Sophie, and I know, he apologizes profusely afterwards with gifts and everything...but Fitz can't control himself when he's mad. No matter how much he tries to prevent it, it just might happen again, and the only thing he can do it apologize afterwards. Plus, Sophitz has only been through one major hurdle, that was Exile, and it didn't go so well. Sokeefe, though, even after Keefe unknowingly put Sophie in danger numerous times,and even betrayed them, she didn't stop trusting him. And she's the only one who's seen the other side of him, the broken one. Also, in Flashback, Fitz says he started to like her around the time they joined the Black Swan, whereas, with Keefe, it's obvious he's like her from book 2, maybe even book 1. Okay last point. When Sophie's around Fitz, she's a little too self-conscious. For example, in Neverseen, when she thought about telling Fitz she liked him, she was worried about his reaction, and she even thought he might laugh. This proves that Sophie isn't always sure about what Fitz will say, do, or think, hence...she doesn't know him well enough. With Keefe, she can tell when he's about to do something reckless, like in Neverseen, after Keefe got the memory about the Lodestar initiative back and locked himself up in his room, Sophie stayed up and waited for Keefe to come out of his room, because she knew he was going to try and fix things on his own...by going to Ravagog alone. She then convinces him to do otherwise, and this is the same vice-versa. Keefe always knows when she needs calming down, and sends her mental breezes. So I think Keefe and Sophie just balance each other out, and bring out the good in each other.

Any plot or relationship holes? Please feel free to point them out.

-SamSerene68


A FANDOM User's Arguments

Part I

  • I made several predictions as to what would have to happen with the ships. Now, let's all be honest--Keefe plays a bigger role in the series than Fitz. Which character has been at the climax of every book since Exile? Who is always there for Sophie, even when he's playing double agent? Who needs a happy ending the most? Who's most interesting? Who's actions further the main plot? Keefe. Keefe every time. Nightfall had a ton of helpful hints as to which way the ships would sail (Team Foster Keefe is going to win). Heck, Ro's main thing is commenting on how cute the two of them are. Keefe is more likable. He's interesting, funny, and heartbreakingly sweet.
  • But the issue still remains. Sophie has a crush on Fitz. Key word here is crush. All it is is puppy love, nothing more. From an author standpoint, the best way to handle the love triangle is to show the strengths and weaknesses of each pairing. Sophitz had to happen eventually. Sophie has to kiss Fitz. Only then will she realize who she truly has feelings for. Remember what Keefe said about the head and the heart? That wasn't just thrown in there for fun. That was a HUGE hint as to what will happen with the romantic sub-plot.
  • I'm confident that there will be a TON of Keefe in book eight. Tam was kidnapped by his mother! Keefe is going to need all the help he can get, and you better believe him and Sophie will be scheming rescue missions together.  I have three predictions as to what will happen in the romantic subplot for the next book.
  • 1. Something horrible will happen to Keefe. Maybe he loses his memories like Alvar. Maybe his sanity finally shatters from grief, and Sophie goes nuts trying to bring him back. Then while searching through his memories, she finds a gold memory (the ones that Keefe doesn't want her to see) and she finally realizes how much Keefe cares about her.
  • 2. Sophie and Fitz have a fight. An actual fight, not just her trying to calm him down as he blames her for everything (not a sign of an unhealthy relationship). Maybe they fight over the matchmaking, or Alvar, or something to do with Keefe. But they will fight, and that will affect their powers as cognates as well as their relationship.
  • 3. Keefe and Fitz finally talk things out. I am soooo tired of them acting like everything's fine when it's not. Fitz is a crappy friend. Keefe tells Sophie everything but has known Fitz longer. If I where Fitz, I'd feel a bit left out too. The two of them used to be so close. Can we please have their issues finally addressed? Please?
  • Remember guys, "Sometimes things need to get worse before they get better."

Part II

So theres this part in Flashback that i was rereading and something caught my eye its the telapthic concvo while they are in keefes head.



Your memories are more spread out, He added. its like staring at the horizon. l can't actually see where your consciousness ends- and i seriously don't get how you have so much information in your head.

Photographic memory, she reminded him. plus seven years of hearing the thoughts of everyone around me.

True. And all the stuff the Black Swan planted.

She squirmed at the reminder.






is it just me or does Fitz really not know what makes her upset. It's almost as if their connection is so shallow that he knowws what she thinks about in the surface of her mind but doesn't know the deeper things that are connected to her emotions, like he doesnt fully understand her. Just me?


Silverwolf0618's Arguments

I just feel Foster-Keefe would be better. Keefe... He's shattered. All the things that happened with his mom... He needs her. Sure, Fitz, he loves (lets just stick with that word for now) Sophie, but, like, sorry to Fitzphie people, but he isn't exactly the best for her. He got so mad at her that time in Exile. It wouldn't have really been realistic if it didn't affect her one bit.

Sure. Couples argue. But get so mad that they made the other cry and doubt themselves so much (I'm misquoting it, haven't read Exile since, what, two years? But something like. "He wouldn't have if he knew you were damaged"), not to mention the avoiding? That line I (mis)quoted? It hurt Sophie. A lot. It created everything the limbium thing was based on. If Fitz hadn't said that? Sophie wouldn't have been so desperate that she nearly died (or done stuff that would've likely gotten her killed. As I said, I haven't read Exile in a while).

Keefe? He cares about Sophie in that pure way. He would've, no, he had gone through hell and back *cough* *cough* Neverseen, offence intended, for her. Yes, he made Sophie cry as Fitz did when he 'joined' the Neverseen, but he hadn't done so because he wanted to hurt her. In addition, Sophie wasn't so self-conscious around Keefe. They're much more natural.

EthanDaCryokinetic's Arguments:

#1:

"Not the hero.

Not the one trying to take control of everything.

A friend.

Until she was ready for more."



The first thing I noticed was the WORD CHOICE.  Not "If she was ready for more," not "In case she decided one day that she was ready for more," but "UNTIL she was ready for more."

What this is basically implying is that he knows that one day she WILL be ready for more--Keefe is an Empath.  He's picked up a lot of emotions from Sophie before even she realized she was having them--and this isn't even when she's enhancing him.  Remember in Lumenaria when Sophie enhanced Keefe and he smiled?  He later said that this was the time he proved Lord Cassius' theory right--that emotions in the heart are purer than the ones in the head.  Either this is a VERY strange and inaccurate choice of words from an experienced author--especially since that quote was meant to be the big "boom!" at the end of the short story and that's the part that an author would work hardest to get right--and ALSO a coincidence that Keefe said he felt purer emotions from Sophie when she enhanced him AND THEN GRINNED ABOUT IT--especially since he was obviously worried about Sophitz being a thing (remember the Sophitz "moment that happened only a hundred or so pages prior to Lumenaria?).  Honestly, there is only one way that these things line up--and that's that the emotions in Sophie's heart are of Keefe.

#2 (my summary for book 8):

The book starts out with Keefe or Dex talking to Sophie.  They'll have already learned about what happened with the match, and they'll be talking it over with her, or talking about something else so that Sophie doesn't have to bring that up (They know her super well--they'll know which she'll prefer).  

She doesn't know how to tell Fitz about the match, because obviously he's too wrapped up in his awesomeness to notice anything about Sophie, so--SHOCKER--she doesn't tell him at all.  When he finally figures it out, he BLOWS UP at Sophie, ranting about why she should have told him. But at the same time, Fitz is hesitant about dating Sophie if it means constant scorn.  Between the anger issues and the hesitancy, Sophie realizes she deserves better than Fitz--but tries very hard to break up with with Fitz without hurting him.  She starts hanging out with Keefe more, because Dex is gone with Tinker, and they get to be really close friends--nothing more, because Keefe is keeping to his promise about only doing what she wanted.  

Linh is going nuts about how Tam joined the Neverseen.  She knows it was necessary, but she still doesn't like it, and asks Sophie every night to reach out telapathically to him and ask him to come back.   He's convinced he's found the REAL caches, because as the new Shade they'll have to tell him stuff, like how to access the caches (which probably has to do with something like shadow-conjuring or something, and they might not trust him at first, but he probably is willing to "prove" himself--he's a lot more darkish and willing to do that than Keefe.  He finds the caches and during a battle, appears and gives the caches to the Black Swan, but Lady Gisela or someone hits him with a truly lethal sopordine dose. They get the caches, and Linh goes Scarlet Witch on the Neverseen (I don't know, sucks all the moisture out of five people/other sentient species' bodies and uses the water to drown five more people or something.  I don't know, sorry for the morbidness.)

Everyone gets back to safety (except Tam RIP) and hold a funeral.  Bronte and Tinker disappears with Dex working on these *real* caches--which they know is real because they manage to find a Secret, and to fit my plot theory, it's an abondoned facility in the Forgotten Cities.  It's in the caches because it was originally created by the Ancient Council. Yes, the Council made a facility for testing humans--but blotted it out from their memories to take away the guilt. Vespera found it, but found it too "inelegant" and made Nightfall in Atlantis.  Anyway, I'm off on a history tangent. That was the Forgotten Secret. On with the plot.

They learn more about the nature of this facility in the Forgotten Cities--the Forgotten secret comes with a handy-dandy Wikipedia link about human experimentalization facilites--and so when Keefe realizes what his mom had been planning, his

Sanity

SHATTERS

Naturally, Fitz tries to comfort Sophie, who's freaking out.  Fitz realizes how much of a bad friend he had been to Keefe and vows to make it right if he ever wakes up.  Sophie realizes she can save him, and immediately goes into Keefe's mind with Fitz watching what Sophie sees in Keefe's mind through their connection, she Enhances Fitz and he sends the energy back.  As she's searching for part of him, she sees a gold memory, and realizes just how much he cared about her, and how hard it must have been for him when Sophie and Fitz were kinda-dating. She gets ready to inflict positively, from her heart, and--suprisingly--it was much easier to heal him and convey how much she cares for him than she thought.  He comes back, and, between her getting to know him better from the "epic Fitzphie fail" and how easy it was to inflict love to him, and the gold memory, she is REALLY grateful that he's back. Nothing more than that happens because Keefe had already decided to take it slow. Later, when they're fighting, she leans a lot closer to him. Anyway, this is all the shipping stuff that happens for the rest of the book.

Climax: They're in the facility in the Forgotten Cities, fighting in Tam's memory (Tam is the first mjor character to die besides Forkle One) and to fight for equality and safety of humans.  They take over the hideout, but Lady Gisela and Ruy and Gethen get away. Fintan joins them and agrees to work with the newly formed and newly-recruiting Neverseen in order to get rid of the Black Swan.  

Cliffhanger:  I'm not completely sure.  Maybe, with all things considered, as they're escaping, they bring down the entire city with them.  

DUN

DUN

DUN!!!!!

More is coming.

KaleTheEmpath's Argument

So here are a few reasons why I ship Sokeefe and think it's going to happen:

They are super comfortable with each other, and they really open up when they're together and have built up their trust over the years until they can confide in each other about almost anything.

They both help each other to be better people, and kind of even each other out. Keefe would be so lost without Sophie at this point in his life. Sophie also leans on Keefe quite a bit, and he almost always succeeds in comforting her, making her feel better, and helping her solve problems.

They honestly just have a really deep, meaningful, complex and interesting relationship. It has been so interesting to watch their relationship develop until they were very close and shared a deep connection. Their relationship is so beautiful in that way.

They have really good chemistry. People say opposites attract, and sometimes that's really true. But as much as they are very different people, they also share a lot of similarities, and have been through a lot of the same experiences, which makes them compatible

They care so much about each other and are willing to make so many sacrifices for each other. This is really important in a relationship that's going to work.

Sophitz can't last for long. Their relationship is already having problems, as seen in Flashback. Fitz has too many anger issues and get mad at Sophie very easily, even just for having an opinion. He can be selfish and always just wants his way. People say that he didn't pressure her into matchmaking, but he did, if unknowingly. He kept mentioning it, trying to convince her of it, and even when he was confessing his crush on her couldn't keep from talking about it. It's obviously very important to him. He said that he probably wouldn't want to be with someone unless they were on his match list. Keefe doesn't care about any of this! He would literally give up anything, any social standing, just for her and to make her happy. I also think that Sophitz is not a very deep relationship and doesn't seem well crafted. When another relationship is much for developed, complex, and interesting, that's usually the one that will happen. Shannon is simply showing us why Sophitz won't work out, and then showing us that there is a much better alternative.

Obviously there's the whole head vs. heart thing, but I won't go very far into that, except to say:

Why would Shannon Messenger put something like that in her series, mention it many times, and then never do anything with it, have it mean anything, or have it never amount to anything? She doesn't do things like that for no reason- drop huge hints and then completely ignore them. She's not a horrible writer; she wouldn't do something like that.

I firmly believe that seven books of developing a very complex, rich, interesting, and deep relationship won't come to nothing.

(aND thEY'rE rEAlly cUte)